tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4496928386210519896.post1930723230614427822..comments2023-10-31T03:55:44.404-07:00Comments on And Now For Something Completely Sectarian: Socialists Support Welsh LanguageUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4496928386210519896.post-42135214900018164222009-12-28T10:22:17.577-08:002009-12-28T10:22:17.577-08:00Your article does synthesize apparently contradict...Your article does synthesize apparently contradictory viewpoints - that's good.<br /><br />Leading on from the points you have made, I think that Welsh Labour has possibly attempted to occupy the Plaid's Welsh language policy territory to a certain extent. But rather than win votes from Plaid, it has ended up making their more extreme policies acceptable.<br />Consequently, I think, Welsh politics is becoming polarised between the Nationalist Plaid and the Unionist Conservative Party: the Conservatives had the highest share of the Welsh vote this year.<br /><br />In 1926,the year of the General Strike, the Communist newspaper 'The Worker's Weekly' had 1000 subscribers in Ammanford, a Welsh speaking town. I think when class politics come into play, Welsh speakers will join the Socialist Party, regardless of whether the shop assistant in Boots can answer their questions in Welsh or not. <br /><br />Fraternal Regards.Denzilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824590062763589873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4496928386210519896.post-3602989224587823842009-12-24T04:23:22.948-08:002009-12-24T04:23:22.948-08:00You've missed one of the points of the article...You've missed one of the points of the article - that whilst we should support the rights of welsh speakers, we need to make sure this doesn't attack english speakers ability to get a job.<br /><br />Hence the demand for basic welsh to be part of training for jobs in wales - which is something that would be needed to be taken up by the trade unions.<br /><br />Of course, under capitalism, companies will play off welsh and english speakers - thats why to get a real solution we have to call for taking large companies into public ownership under democratic control.<br /><br />Whats possible is shown in the difference between Bangor Uni and Gwynedd Council - the first offers courses to all new starters in welsh, the second appears to just take on welsh speakers. this is rather crude comparison (as obviously the university teaches this stuff anyway), but the former is veiwed positively as an employment prospect and the latter negatively. We would go further and say that learning to speak welsh should be done in paid work time. Now obviously such a thing would cut into companies profits, and hence why it needs to be taken up by the trade unionsLeftwing Criminologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369810078697007763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4496928386210519896.post-4490923112194100192009-12-18T12:16:59.976-08:002009-12-18T12:16:59.976-08:00Thanks for your response, there's a nice tone ...Thanks for your response, there's a nice tone to it.<br /><br />The 2.5% figure comes from 'Wales Today' Dunkerly and Thompson (Cardiff, 1999).<br /><br />I guess the essence of what I think and feel: yes, to be honest its a bit emotive, is that in North-West Wales you couldn't even be a Care Assistant in a hospital without the Welsh language, you can't work for the council, most local businesses only employ Welsh speakers.<br />The only employers for English monoglots are national businesses such as Boots, Morrisons, the Co-op etc. And, hey, along comes someone - who speaks and understands English, no doubt - and says look these businesses should only employ bilingual staff as well.<br />Come socialism, we can all have an hour a day at work to learn Welsh, but in the mean-time what do the English monoglots do to earn a living?<br />Having said all that, if this were just happening in North-West Wales you might be just about able to understand it. But, where I live in Mid-Wales, jobs for the NHS and councils are advertised with the proviso 'Welsh speakers preferred'. Now, this means if two people with the same qualifications and experience apply for the job, but one speaks Welsh, they will get the job.<br />The sticking point is that you practically never encounter anyone that speaks Welsh and if you do they speak fluent English as well. So, on that basis why discriminate against the 95% of the population here that are English monoglots.<br />If there were two distinct monoglot language populations in Wales: 80% speaking English only and 20% speaking Welsh only, then socialists would have to say that jobs in the public services should be allocated in percentage according to the local language strengths of the two groups. <br />But, if every Welsh speaker understands English then this is more than about language, its about politics, its about reversing the Anglicisation of Wales: its about Nationalism.Denzilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824590062763589873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4496928386210519896.post-39423821922772145372009-12-17T14:06:05.611-08:002009-12-17T14:06:05.611-08:00Hi Denzel,
I think the article takes up questions...Hi Denzel,<br /><br />I think the article takes up questions you raise about the situation regarding non-welsh speakers in Wales like myself. The feeling of most people is that we wouldn't mind learning some basic welsh, you get training for most jobs so why couldn;t that be part of it? but that we shouldn't be penalised just cos we don;t speak any welsh at the moment.<br /><br />On the amount of welsh spoken in Wales. Whilst around 20% of the population speak welsh, in Gwynedd and Anglesey in North West Wales this shoots up to around 80% of the population, making it the majority language up here.<br />Where did you get the 2.5% figure from, haven't heard it before and it seems a tad smallLeftwing Criminologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369810078697007763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4496928386210519896.post-19352737252531939942009-12-14T12:33:05.036-08:002009-12-14T12:33:05.036-08:00This topic is obviously extremely important in Wal...This topic is obviously extremely important in Wales. However, most people, apart from the Nationalists, normally avoid it like the plague, because to discuss it always leaves a bad taste in the mouth.<br />Socialist Party Wales needs to be very careful before formulating a policy on language rights, as the consequences of getting it wrong could be very serious as the organisation meets opportunities to grow in the future.<br />Obviously, it's vital to bring the Welsh speaking population on board the struggle for socialism: only socialism guarantees the rights of minorities.<br />I'm not entirely sure what the right answers are, but I think the following points are worthy of note:<br /><br />Welsh-speakers have a right to converse in their language of choice.<br /><br />Welsh-medium education should be provided by the state for all those who request it.<br /><br />The statistic 20% of the population can speak Welsh, is not the same statistic as 20% speak Welsh as a first language: after all, 100% of the population can speak English!<br /><br />Only 2.5% of the Welsh population live in homes where every member of the family, in that home, has Welsh as a first language.<br /><br />Traditionally, socialists have supported the language rights of different-language, monoglot, populations living in the same country.<br /><br />If all front-line public-sector employees need to be bi-lingual, then the 80% of Welsh citizens who only speak English would be excluded from the best jobs. Would Welsh-speakers really see that as being just?<br /><br />A recent article in the Western Mail claimed that already the average wage of Welsh (bi-lingual) speakers in Wales is greater than English speakers in Wales, and the reason for this is the requirement for public sector employees to be bi-lingual.Denzilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824590062763589873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4496928386210519896.post-67240248953127503652009-12-08T11:42:12.298-08:002009-12-08T11:42:12.298-08:00Good article this, cheersGood article this, cheersProper Tidyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06759755693852228926noreply@blogger.com